Tuesday, 13 July 2010

Marxism - Leninism

So I started reading about Atheism purely for the selfish point of storing boxes of ammo to fire at Doc when ever the need arises, but it quickly turned into an interesting read about the realities of human nature, versus ideology.

We all love a good brain fight; some more than others, and I enjoy firing shots about "well your bloke...." when in the end people that use faith - theist or not - to persecute then it's a sad indictment on humans as a species.

It's a fact that people with murderous agenda will use whatever tools work to achieve their goals. That rings true for the petty criminal, to the serial offender, to the likes of fundamentalist nutters from all creeds.

From the Fundamentals of Marxism Leninism Manual, Materialism and Idealism section.

The great historic service rendered by materialist philosophy is that it helped man to break free of all superstitions. Ever since ancient times it has taught him not to fear death, not to fear gods and other supernatural forces.

It teaches us not to hope for happiness beyond the grave, but to prize life on earth and strive to improve it. For the first time materialism gave man the realisation of his dignity and intellect, proclaiming that man was not a worm condemned to crawl in the dust, but nature’s supreme creation capable of mastering the forces of nature and making them serve him. Materialism is imbued with the utmost faith in the human intellect, in the power of knowledge, in man’s ability to fathom all the secrets of the world around him, and to create a social system based on reason and justice.

Interesting read. What's even more interesting is the rhetoric versus the man made reality of that Atheist ideology.


  1. Indeed the discontect between rhetoric espoused and the reality of what a group does I would be tempted to consider a invariable human trait.

    Though there are a few you manage to live and express what they believe in how they live and these are the exceptions. I found examples of this amoungst theists and atheists.

  2. err...so all Atheism is Marxist/Leninist or Materialist?

    Dude. I'll come to the religion party when two things happen: first, some kind of god provides unequivocal evidence of his existence; and second, the religious folk agree exactly which god it is, and what the rules of engagement are supposed to be.

    That second rider is worth noticing. Because there are many, many forms of atheism (being without a god) even as there are many forms of religion. Buddhism, for example: ain't no god at all in there.

    But I doubt you'd regard the Zen Buddhists as 'materialists'. Nor are they Marxists, Leninists, or anything similar.

    And of course, as Mr Barnes observes, there's a considerable gap between the rhetoric and the reality within most religious groups as well...

  3. I think by materialists they mean what you'd consider scientific solid truths, and not so much widescreen teles etc.

    Chief. I don't really care if anyone comes to some religious party. What you believe and what you do with your existence is totally up to you and your idea of truth. Faith - theist or not - for me, is an a completely individual thing and you don't have to justify it to me as I don't for you.

    My original post isn't to demonstrate that is the pure definition of Atheism. Obviously it isn't, and obviously it isn't the complete Communist. It was just a read I had this morning and that is what I got from it.

  4. Actually, as an after thought.

    err...so all Atheism is Marxist/Leninist or Materialist?

    That comment from what I said is VERY similar to how I feel about the more vocal Atheists who use the word 'religion', or 'Christian'. If I was to use the same sort of generalisations I COULD use Marxism - Leninism Atheism to comment against Atheists on the whole, could I not?. Atheists seem more than comfy doing it, but if I suggest Marxism - Leninism Atheist ideology is responsible for millions of deaths throughout Europe, North Korea, Africa, Asia, South America I bet my last 10 cents you and others will get their knickers in a bunch.

    So tell me, why is it okay to lump my faith into that of Al Qaeda etc?.

  5. For myself I bring all those religious groups under the umbrella of theist, not because I believe they are all the same other than the fundamental difference between them and atheist such as myself is that they subscribe to a doctrine of a God and his relationship to the universe.

    Don't mean to say they are the same other than in this fundamental.

    Just like theist, atheist come in all stripes which i think you alluded to moko with you reference to "the more vocal Atheists. In fact there are a couple of skeptic websites debating if you can be a skeptic and not be an athiest. Also running PSA to show how not to be a dick when it comes to skepticism.

  6. Thanks B. Always the voice of common sense and reason.

  7. Eyyup. You missed my point. I couldn't make sense of your initial post, hence my inquiry. It wasn't clear to me whether you were equating all atheism with Marxist/Leninist or Materialist philosophies, or what. Which was, of course, why I invoked Buddhism - being without a god, but definitely none of the above.

    As for equating Christianity with Al Qaeda... hell, I don't even equate Al Qaeda with Islam. Huge differences all round. Like Mr B, I recognise the umbrella term 'theism', but understand there are many variations. Indeed, it's those variations which at least in part keep me out of the 'theist' camp, as previously noted.

    For someone concerned with the way Christians get portrayed, you've once again been happy to say "Atheists seem more than comfy doing it..." which suggests you have one or two unresolved issues yourself about atheism and atheists. Personally, I'm not offering any form of aggro. As I said, I just didn't quite understand your original post.

    I'm pretty fastidious about laying blame. Crusades and Inquisitions generally belong to the Catholic church. Jihads mostly go to the more violent forms of Islam. Witch-burnings were Puritan/Protestant as well as Catholic... but televangelists belong to a range of religious groups. Yellow clothes, bad haircuts and tambourines on street corners: I blame the Hare Krishnas for that. Tom Cruise bouncing on couches: that's Scientology.


    BTW: not at all sure Scientology has a God. But they claim they're a religion. What's a bloke to do?

  8. As I read it, I don't pretend to understand it, Scientoligists believe

    "Hubbard explains how to reverse the effects of past-life trauma patterns that supposedly extend millions of years into the past. Among these advanced teachings is the story of Xenu (sometimes Xemu), introduced as the tyrant ruler of the "Galactic Confederacy." According to this story, 75 million years ago Xenu brought billions of people to Earth in spacecraft resembling Douglas DC-8 airliners, stacked them around volcanoes and detonated hydrogen bombs in the volcanoes. The thetans then clustered together, stuck to the bodies of the living, and continue to do this today. Scientologists at advanced levels place considerable emphasis on isolating body thetans and neutralizing their ill effects...."

    admitly this comes from Wikipedia but I have to say really, this is what people believe, I mean REALLY. Its not even good science fiction.

  9. Judge not lest ye be judged and all that, but farrrrrrrrrrk. You're right, it's not even good. The original Flash Gordon was better.

  10. Yeah, fucking Scientology looniness. At least religions have some sort of superior being(s) to pray to. As far as marxist/leninist theory is concerned it gets as corrupted as any religion. That's what happens when you put people into any equation, we just can't help but fuck around with ideas. Did you get to the Dialectics of Materialism? Go from Hegel and his mystical history/time shtick to Marx's material reality of consciousness. Its a real fucking hoot. Not.
    Ya know what? I always thought Groucho was the best Marx.

  11. Cheers boys, that saves me having to come back to this one and ask what the fuck I have to do with this.

  12. You have ev-er-y-thing to do with it. EV-ER-Y-THING. o.O


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