I've been to pubs where people have been singing - for money - and haven't attributed the songs they're singing to the writers of these songs. Do you think they're paying royalties while making money at pubs from it? Personally, I can't see the difference when comedian's delivery in a LARGE part of the success of the joke. Much the same as singing.
I'd have an ENTIRELY differing opinion if he profited from the jokes but really, what's he done, told a couple of jokes on a stage. Lighten, the fuck, up.
Not the first time.
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Hicks
scroll down to Denis Leary
Moko, saw your q on twitter this morning and it got me thinking.
ReplyDeleteMusic has two elements to it as an artform - that of creating and that of producing. If I were to 'create' a musical piece and seek to exploit it, then proof of originality must exist (the legal definitions are quite prescriptive about chord progressions and mathematical equations for working out if something is copied or not, as in the recent Men At Work case). If I were, however, simply to perform someone else's work, then that is showing my skill on an instrument. I'm not seeking to display my creativity, rather the mastery of my instrument.
Comedians, however, trades in essentially one artform - that of interpretation of the world around them. Copying someone's interpretation is plagiarism. It was be akin, in my mind, to someone lifting whole chunks of JBs words, chopping it up a little, maybe topping and tailing it with their own stuff and then passing it off as evidence they can write.
Oh, and it terms of payment in the musical world? It does exist - an organisation in Australia called APRA collects fees from businesses wanting to play music publicly (nightclubs, radio stations, shopping centres, telephone on-hold companies) and then distributes that to its members based on another very complex equation. The venue where you watch the covers band pays a certain amount to APRA and they then distribute that to artists based on plays/sales/etc.
ReplyDeleteCheers B. Yeah, I think it happens ALOT. I actually cut a bit out of my post where I think comedians steal content all the time in one way or another. Is it plagiarism if they take a joke from a private convo ... on here, or elsewhere ... and profit from it?
ReplyDeleteYeah, I get what you're saying ALD, but did he pass it off as his? I think the ONLY thing he did wrong was not attribute it at the start and say if he got through he'd write his own, or something.
Ah k, I had no idea they did that. Cheers.
ReplyDeleteBut I don't get how someone essentially standing on a stage reading what someone else has written is evidence of his/her art? I mean, he's meant to be displaying that he's got talent, right? Talent as a comedian means making funny observations about life... not the actual act of standing on a stage letting shit fall out of your mouth.
ReplyDeleteTwo people telling the same joke can be VASTLY different. Part of the talent is queuing the laughs, which this bloke did. He 'looked funny' which is part of the act. The delivery is just as important as the joke.
ReplyDeleteWe already discussed this on Twitter - which ALD has touched on so I won't revisit - but I was just thinking how we live in a time of plagiarism, recycling and retroism. It's all about the 80s revival, mashups, pop song cover versions and (at uni) students plagiarising material from the net in unheard of volumes. Where do you draw the line? I know where I draw it - this guy's a fraud - but is this part of what the kids seem to think is acceptable?
ReplyDeleteStill don't see the difference between it and singing someone else's gear, as long as it's done correctly. We all tell jokes, most of which we didn't make up.
ReplyDeleteA songwriter gets royalties when someone else performs their material for financial gain; a joke writer doesn't, unless they're professionals and are being contracted by that Someone Else (eg Dave Letterman's writers). That's why comedians are precious about their material, it's their only stream of income. Musicians get paid both for writing and performing. If a muso had done what this guy had done - which is to borrow bits of other peoples work without attributing - and released it to market he'd have been sued as well. As many artists have been over the years, from the Stones and Led Zep to Moby and the Chemical Brothers. More common these days due to sampling of course. Basically this guy has 'sampled' a bunch of other artist and is trying to make money from it (in his case get a career break which he doesn't deserve). That's a long way from telling your mates a joke at smoko.
ReplyDeleteI don't believe that every time a song is sung in public the person who owns it gets paid for it. Buskers and such...
ReplyDeleteI'm not defending this guy. He did it wrong, and I agree he shouldn't 'profit' - financially, or via notoriety - from it.
How about people making money from joke books? There's a million of those.
ReplyDeleteYep Storm in a teacup as per fucking usual.
ReplyDeleteBut its the 7 network thats doing it I think, look at all the bullshit that went on witrh Dancing with the stars! Who the hell cares!
Not every time it's performed, no. But, if you're a member of APRA, you'll get fees based on assumptions of where your songs get played, frequency, audience size it's played to, etc. Most buskers (to use your example), do pay licensing fees and part of that fee is then submitted to APRA for distribution.
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